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What's it really like?

Toli Makris is a German-educated Greek living in Thailand. He was a founding partner of Elite Boxing, which is the company responsible for Thailand VS Challenger, the world’s most successful International Muaythai TV event.

How did you get involved with boxing promotion?

I was organising Muaythai tours and training for people that came to Thailand on holiday. I joined with a successful local promoter to expand the business and gain access to more gyms. I was nobody at that time, but the co-promoter, Songchai Ratansuban, had 180 events a year. At the same time, he started up the Bangkok Boxing Stadium and I started getting involved with the events. I was on top of all these amazing events. I started Thailand VS Challenger (TVC) because many foreign boxers approached me; they wanted to come here and make a name for themselves. The problem here is Lumphini and Ratchdamnan stadiums (well-known Muaythai venues) attract people who only want to see Thai vs Thai. They can be earning 50,000 dollars but want to fight in these Muaythai Meccas, so they offer to fight for free; they just want to be here to challenge themselves and prove themselves. A lot of Thais approach me to send them abroad because they want to make some money. Career potential here vanishes after the age of 20, but abroad, they can make money well past this age.

How did you build up your boxing promotion business?

I knew I had to move out of the stadiums to attract a more middle-class and high-society culture and audience. I launched the series at Siam Paragon, a local designer mall, and it was the first time an event like that was held in a high-class Thai shopping mall. It was a new concept; I didn’t understand everything I was doing at that time. We had 1200 guests and after that we got very popular around the world. We had to cancel Thai events though because of the political situation last year, and by then, we already had TV rights sold. Having events abroad secures the series against any further political instability. We charge 1000 to 2500 Baht (£20 to £50), so we differ from the typical Muaythai events; we have fixed prices, with no discrimination made between Thai people and foreigners.

How do you go about finding a venue?

River City Mall, the location for our latest TVC event, wanted exposure. We focus on a smaller audience of quality people: celebrities, well-known and influential figures. It looks great on TV either way because you never really get a sense of scale of the venue, so in that respect, it does not matter. River City is a great partner. We wanted the “right” 400 people to be our VIP guests, and they have given us the venue to attract that sort of people. I’m excited about River City and I would love to keep one event there permanently.

Do you have an exit strategy in case things don’t work out with future events?

Exit strategy? I have the money behind it. If we can’t get a sponsor, then the money I have left has to absorb the hit, and we move on and try again. Thais are not supportive in the respect that we’ve had no support from airlines, from corporate sponsors and so on; it’s very difficult. If I sell out a venue, I will still lose 3 million baht (£60,000), so it’s more for the long-term, creating exposure, finishing the product, generating a sustainable commercial platform for the benefit of our future sponsors. We make money in other countries but it’s important for us to keep it here, so it will always open in Thailand. Co-promotion in almost any other country is easier and more profitable, and securing great venues is easy too.

What does the future hold for the TVC series and your career as a promoter?

We currently do not have a Malaysian competitor. Happily though, we are setting up Thai VS Asia at Berjaya Times Square Malaysia. The venue is confirmed but we are still finalising the arrangements. They have good local promoters already, so it’s an easy country to involve in the growth of the series. We also have the Astro Malaysia TV Channel who have agreed to broadcast Elite Boxing events in Malaysia. We have a joint venture expo in February in South Florida (Miami). We will focus on the US now. We are already strong in Europe because we have Greece, Germany and Russia, so our European channel is tight and well-managed with good take-up for the product. The US has massive potential, of course. Americans only know UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship), so they compare us to them. Interest is cyclical though, so people get bored of UFC’s endless grappling and ground-fighting. So I see more potential for us as an alternative. There is K1 stand-up fighting in Japan, too. People get bored so we need to drop into the cycle and ride the waves by offering something new every year. It’s a great time for us. Plus we are global, so we cannot focus only on the Thai market. We’re always looking for exposure for sponsors, so the brand, the experience and the demand for it then grows. Elite Boxing is based in the US, but TVC is based here in Bangkok. “Build it big”, then bring it “back” to the US; that is the best strategy because it’s tough to launch anything there. Once we have the heritage, we can seek the exposure.

How long have you been managing Elite Boxing’s growth in Thailand?

6 years. Bangkok becomes less shocking the longer you stay here, but I love Muaythai so I cannot leave for that reason. I will leave after I’m done with this; it’s the only reason I’m here. Bangkok is exciting to start with, but later on, you trip over legal and red-tape issues.

Is networking important to being a boxing promoter?

I’m not a good networker and I get bored of the party scene. Everybody needs something from you. I don’t want your business card. If I go, they don’t support my business anyway. I just need sponsors, but they’re not giving you a cheque there and then. I enjoy it sometimes, but after six years, there have been many things I’ve done and it all gets boring! You see things differently as you get older, and you think more long-term. I enjoy what I’m doing now with the Muaythai, and that’s all I think about now.